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[Flint54]

It appears that Sawgrass got to Richard at Cobra Ink. There is no more Hi Temp Ink or Hi Temp CIS/Bulk Ink or Cartridges available. A real shame as many have the printers and CIS. I was a couple weeks from ordering a setup with proceeds from my Dad's Estate. Now what avenue do I have other than Sawgrass and their Monopoly?

[American logoZ]

I am in similar situation.  Looks like I must now wait until I save a few extra pennies and go large format?

I haven't done a lot of testing or reading yet - but what's to prevent a person from loading up a wf1100 with the supposedly better sublimation inks designed for large format printers?

[boomerbabe]

I'm in the same boat. I bought the Epson 1100 printer but had not yet ordered the hi temp inks. So now what do I do with the printer? I bought it specifically to do sublimation. I am very unhappy.

[binki]

The large format printers run about $6K but the ink is 10% of the sawgrass price.

Consider that a set of inks can cost you $1000 you are miles ahead after a year of service plus you get a better product with a 24inch roll printer.

[American logoZ]

Anyone tried laser sublimation?  I was reading about it on Alpha Supply Company's website.  HP printer + sublimation toner printed into regular copy paper = transfer ready to be pressed onto silver & gold substrates (and light colors if "pure white" backgrounds are not necessary). 

They mention their Magicwear! transfer paper - also interesting.  HP ink printed onto their paper (approx .50 a sheet) and pressed onto cotton & cotton blends.  Some fading in the wash.  They describe the fade as more noticeable than sublimation but comparable to inkjet transfers.  I read it quickly and don't recall any claims re cracking and no mention of the hand or polymer box left behind.

[deChez]

Well that just sucks! I think I have enough ink to get me through Christmas (when I bought the refillable carts, and bottles of ink, I got an extra black), but that Cobra high temp ink was what made it possible for me to get in to doing mugs....the other inks are so expensive that I'm not sure it will be worth it for me to offer sublimation. GRRRRR!

[discoqueen]

Has anyone called them and asked them what existing customers are supposed to do?

[charles95405]

I think I have been doing dye sub longer than most on this forum.....since 1997 ...and have tried about every sawgrass alternative out there..including the hi- temp inks.  For me none have worked as well as sawgrass, so I adjusted my price to reflect my cost. True you need a customer base but a mug cost $1.35 about .75 shipping, .05 paper, ink less than $1 so total cost is just over $3. Personalized mugs in my area sell from  $8.95-$12.95 compared to ashopping mall price of $15..  So there is room for enough profit. Even with sawgrass  full color magnetic name badges sell for $7.50... Total cost about $1.50

Just food for thought

[boomerbabe]

Thank you, Charles, for this information.

[roxanneupnorth]

In talking with a few people that sublimate, I reach the opinion they spend way too much time on the cost of ink versus the cost of substrates and/or selling at a decent price.....

Someone local to me just shared a skid of mugs with 2 others.....So each got 720 mugs and their cost was about C$1.21 per mug...

[Flint54]

  In some ways I can understand the patent process but when some one/business uses the process to stifle any and all competition with it there needs to be some drastic changes. My big question is how can someone put a patent on an ink that can be used in many printers. This was a big question years back with the onset of ink jet printers and then the onset of bulk ink providers and refill kits for the many cartridges.  Now days a set of ink cartridges usually cost more than the initial price of the printer.

If someone could please explain how Sawgrass can monopolize the small format/desktop dye sub ink market for printers <42". Ink is a mixture of pigments, solvents, water, emulsifiers, anti-drying agents and wetting agents. How can someone patent every formulation and prevent the sale of those differing products? 

[MonkeyMeMe]

sad very sad

[American logoZ]

I got into the Ricoh-Sawgrass process because of the claims that this was the answer to the clogging issues.  Finally an opportunity to add sublimination as a part-time segment of a small business! 

2 years and 2 printers later, I realize this isn't the case.  I kept the first printer on all the time and did exactly as instructed.  I kept the second printer turned off, turning it on only when needed.  Didn't matter - both died - and all the chit chat about expired inks or carts with certain dates didn't "add up" with my experiences.  Now I have 2 paperweights.  Ricoh won't discuss replacement parts with me, so it appears that I can't even replace motherboards or whatever needs replaced to use these printers for their originally intended use.

AFTER I realized that this isn't going to work, I find my distributor advising someone via the internet to print daily with their Ricoh setup.  How long have they known this?!  And why wasn't I kept informed?!  They know how to contact me with marketing garbage!  Could I have saved my system had I been kept up-to-date? 

This little experiment cost me some pennies. 

[charles95405]

I really do not think printing every day with the Ricoh solves anything   I have had a GX7000 since it first came out. I think without any proof  that it was failing because of defective ink or carts. I have had the 7000 off for up to 3 weeks while on vacations etc..no issues. Right now I will not use any cart with an experation date prior to mid year 2011.  Just my quirky thought

[precisioneng]

In some ways I can understand the patent process but when some one/business uses the process to stifle any and all competition with it there needs to be some drastic changes. My big question is how can someone put a patent on an ink that can be used in many printers. This was a big question years back with the onset of ink jet printers and then the onset of bulk ink providers and refill kits for the many cartridges.  Now days a set of ink cartridges usually cost more than the initial price of the printer.

If someone could please explain how Sawgrass can monopolize the small format/desktop dye sub ink market for printers <42". Ink is a mixture of pigments, solvents, water, emulsifiers, anti-drying agents and wetting agents. How can someone patent every formulation and prevent the sale of those differing products? 

Its happening with ALL types of business's today. If you got the money and power you can monopolize any product market. Its sad this is happening but it is.

[deChez]

In some ways I can understand the patent process but when some one/business uses the process to stifle any and all competition with it there needs to be some drastic changes. My big question is how can someone put a patent on an ink that can be used in many printers. This was a big question years back with the onset of ink jet printers and then the onset of bulk ink providers and refill kits for the many cartridges.  Now days a set of ink cartridges usually cost more than the initial price of the printer.

If someone could please explain how Sawgrass can monopolize the small format/desktop dye sub ink market for printers <42". Ink is a mixture of pigments, solvents, water, emulsifiers, anti-drying agents and wetting agents. How can someone patent every formulation and prevent the sale of those differing products? 

It is quite curious...it would be like Ragu saying nobody else can make spaghetti sauce.

[Badalou]

As we all know and what was in the Movie "downhill racer" you could be on top today but look over your shoulder. Someone will invent a new ink. A new formulation. You just never know.

[Flint54]

Patents can be a real bane to business and invention. This situation almost appears to be that Saw-weed put a patent on the process dye sublimation itself! Almost as bad as the patent on exercising your cat with a laser, yup, the patent office granted him a patent for the use of a laser as a cat exerciser.

See link:  http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5443036.pdf

Hopefully there is truth that their patent runs out in 3 years, then the inks may just become more fairly priced.

[uncle remus]

WTF??? you miss alot of news when you punch your laptop screen. So no more hi-temp inks from Cobra? Man this sucks!! I know one thing i will never buy anything from Sawgrass EVER!!
This just ruined my freaking day 
Wonder why our economy is in the dumps, this is part of the reason, now i got to fire someone, thanks Sawgrass

[American logoZ]

I was told by a reputable source that "Artainium is just about finished."  Anyone know what SG is up to?