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[davebaileys]

Hi!

I'm printing some mugs with a black ring around the top and bottom of the mug, and a couple of images and some text in the centre.

I've backed the rings away from the edges as I was getting fading on some of the prints. Got to the point where the print was coming out clear and sharp. Went for a celebratory cup of tea, and when I came back noticed that there was a tiny bit of bleeding on 1 or 2 parts of the rings, and on 1 mug some very slight bleeding on the text. It is just a tinge, and it doesn't show up on photo, but it is noticeable in real life.

Could it be because I am not pressing for the right time - too short or too long?

Should I be cooling the mugs in water as soon as I remove the paper?

With the mug press, should I let the temperature drop to the resting temperature before putting in the next mug?

All advice welcome!

Dave

[MonkeyMeMe]

Hey Dave I see you have your Dress down friday outfit on,, lol


About the mugs,, I dont have a mug press, but it almost sounds like the part that is bleeding after the fact might not have gotten enough heat to get your image into the the mug..

Charles and some of the others can help,, i am sure.

[davebaileys]

Hey Dave I see you have your Dress down friday outfit on,, lol


About the mugs,, I dont have a mug press, but it almost sounds like the part that is bleeding after the fact might not have gotten enough heat to get your image into the the mug..

Charles and some of the others can help,, i am sure.

Sandy Jo, 
For a minute there I thought you meant I had left my webcam on ;0)

Yes, I was wondering if it might be a cool spot on the heat wrap - but sometimes it is OK.  I'll try changing the position of the mug in the press, and extending the press time.

The mugs I am using have slight variations, not huge variations, say max of 1mm - is that usual?  I was not making any adjustments yo the pressure setting for the mug variations, so sometimes it was significantly higher pressure than others.  I tried adjusting to get a more consistent and lower pressure.  I think it helped, but I've run out of mugs to test on.  I have an order in for some RN coated mugs from a different supplier.

Any other suggestions welcome!
Dave

[deChez]

Are you using a piece of paper or teflon between the mug/transfer, and the press? Without the piece of paper in there, the mug press (or in my case, wrap) will absorb the ink from the transfer, and ghost it onto the next image.

Hope description makes sense.

[MonkeyMeMe]

de chez is so right,,,,,

I get huge butcher paper rolls at sams club for my dye sub,, work,  for this,,

[davebaileys]

Are you using a piece of paper or teflon between the mug/transfer, and the press? Without the piece of paper in there, the mug press (or in my case, wrap) will absorb the ink from the transfer, and ghost it onto the next image.

Hope description makes sense.

deChez, yes I use paper between the press and the transfer.
Dave

[graffitiman]

 I also have encountered all types of problems with mugs some do to carelessness on my part and some due to the press itself . I'm very careful now how i cut the transfer to go on the cup a little below the top of the cup and a little above on the bottom and not all the way to the handles AND I STRETCH THE PAPER AROUND THE CUP MAKING SURE THAT IT IS NOT LOOSE that can cause a wrinkle and a bad print .
I use a couple of wraps with my press because it burns the cup in the front .   a silicone wrap cut to size and a little thicker softer stone wrap
this is necessary because of my press . I dunk my cups in cold water then i remove the paper after it cools . paper moving on the cup can cause ghosting make sure its is a perfect fit and taped tight on the cup
this is how i defeated the problem i had . plus a lot of testing for the right  time, temp , and pressure and make sure everything on your press is tight screws or whatever holds it together  (Had that problem to) I also found out how close i could get to the handle on each side and get a good print. But its a beautiful thing when it works right .
I am trying to find a way to salvage all the bad prints i have got on cups  any ideas ?   

[COCHISE]

The further away you print from the top and bottom of the mug the better results you will get. Using the template I sent you is the first step. Cut below the black line and stop the print a minimum of 1/8" below that. Stop the print a minimum of 3/8" from the black line at the end of the template.

You have discovered the second cause why you are having blow out........... the garbage being imported by some dealers is inconsistent in hardness and size. Graffitiman was correct in his tips. The paper must be pressed firmly against the mug and the heating element must be a smooth surface.
Spend extra money to purchase the hardest coatings you can fined. LRI is a master coating plant and their sub products are consistently coated properly. http://www.laserreproductions.com/map.html

Ken

[davebaileys]

The further away you print from the top and bottom of the mug the better results you will get. Using the template I sent you is the first step. Cut below the black line and stop the print a minimum of 1/8" below that. Stop the print a minimum of 3/8" from the black line at the end of the template.

You have discovered the second cause why you are having blow out........... the garbage being imported by some dealers is inconsistent in hardness and size. Graffitiman was correct in his tips. The paper must be pressed firmly against the mug and the heating element must be a smooth surface.
Spend extra money to purchase the hardest coatings you can fined. LRI is a master coating plant and their sub products are consistently coated properly. http://www.laserreproductions.com/map.html

Ken

Ken, 
I've just received my RN coated mugs, so I will give them a try and let you know.  I'm in the UK, so don't know if laserreproductions will ship me a case at a time at a reasonable total cost, I'll see if I can find out. 

I have already pulled in the height and width of the design.

I don't get the bleed on every mug, which is why I was thinking/hoping it could be corrected by adjusting something, eg to take account of a slight variation in the mug dimension/shape.  When the bleed does appear it is usually around the same location - just over 1" in from the handle, and a little way into the image.  Does the fact that the bleed appears as the mug is cooling down indicate that the ink is being undercooked?

The paper is pressed firmly against the mug, in fact I fancied that I got some improvement by reducing the pressure a little and adjusting it appropriatey for each mug.  Can too much pressure induce bleeding?

Could paper trimming be an issue?  My image has a black line at the top and bottom, I cut my paper within 1mm of these top and bottom lines, and about 2cm narrower than the height of the mug.  I then wrap that with blowout paper that is the height of the mug.  Should I vary either/both of these?

Once again, thanks for your help Ken.
Dave

[COCHISE]

Good job then Dave with the harder RN coating..

The heating element controls the overall process.
 If you are consistantly getting the issue in that location, inspect the element to see if it hasn't "sunk" a bit forming a depression or bulged..

The sublimation process continues until the item has cooled a bit. If I understand correctly, you peel the paper and see a decent image all around then a portion of it becomes fuzzy or blown out. That might (might) indicate a hot spot in the element continuing the cook the ink....

Pressure has a great deal to do with the process. I run "snug/medium" on the mugs. Some run just before the mug cracks...... it is very hard to quote exact but Medium pressure has served me well through many hundreds of mugs.

I am not sure what paper you are using. That plays into the issue as well. Over saturation occurs on some brands of paper at the same setting (photo) I told you to use. I am currently using Enmarts paper with good results on the WF1100:
color mode: Adobe RGB
paper: plain white
quality option: photo
printer manages color
rendering intent: Relative Colormetric

ken

[davebaileys]

Ken,

I know I've asked before, but if you or someone could provide the answers to the questions below, I think it would be a great thing to put into a "Mug Press 101" posting.

Given than specific settings vary based upon a number of things (not least Ink, Paper, Printer, Press), rather than say what the settings should be, is it possible to say what the most likely consequences are of:
Too much pressure or too little pressure?
Too much press time or too little press time?
Too much temperature or too little temperature?

I know now, thanks to yourself and others on here, that correct pressure is more important than I thought it was.  My initial thought was that as long as it was tight enough, too tight was not an issue - so I was favouring having to arm wrestle the press lever down!  Now I have some more mugs to play with, I can test out whether I was starting to get consistent results just before I ran out of mugs.

By the way, my paper is Cobra paper, and I am using the same photoshop/printer settings as you do.  Which settings would you use to reduce saturation?  A different paper setting?

Dave

[COCHISE]

DAVE,

I am referring to issues I have had and the probable cause with my press (Hix) and Conde paper but most importantly with the previous ink (SawGarbage) ink I was using. I have had no issues with the Cobra ink but that is due to practice in the past. There are several sub imprinters on here that can chime in and add their experiences as well.

Quote from your post:

Given than specific settings vary based upon a number of things (not least Ink, Paper, Printer, Press), rather than say what the settings should be, is it possible to say what the most likely consequences are of:
Too much pressure or too little pressure?
Too much may cause the image to look like it is smudged. This is called blow out. Too little and the image becomes dull, well defined in some places and not in others

Too much press time or too little press time?
Too much and the paper becomes burnt possibly impacting the image by looking like the burnt area transferred to the mug. To little and the same effect as too little pressure. The image is dull and some colors began to transfer and some (dark and black) did not transfer.

Too much temperature or too little temperature?
Too much heat......400 degrees +/- is usually not an issue. Too little heat, below 375 results in incomplete transfer.

ken

[davebaileys]

DAVE,

I am referring to issues I have had and the probable cause with my press (Hix) and Conde paper but most importantly with the previous ink (SawGarbage) ink I was using. I have had no issues with the Cobra ink but that is due to practice in the past. There are several sub imprinters on here that can chime in and add their experiences as well.

Quote from your post:

Given than specific settings vary based upon a number of things (not least Ink, Paper, Printer, Press), rather than say what the settings should be, is it possible to say what the most likely consequences are of:
Too much pressure or too little pressure?
Too much may cause the image to look like it is smudged. This is called blow out. Too little and the image becomes dull, well defined in some places and not in others

Too much press time or too little press time?
Too much and the paper becomes burnt possibly impacting the image by looking like the burnt area transferred to the mug. To little and the same effect as too little pressure. The image is dull and some colors began to transfer and some (dark and black) did not transfer.

Too much temperature or too little temperature?
Too much heat......400 degrees +/- is usually not an issue. Too little heat, below 375 results in incomplete transfer.

ken

Ken,  
I thought I might be pushing my luck, but I should have known you would get back to me!  

For me this provides a baseline for considering if I need to consider a change to my press settings when I am not getting the right results I want, and should mean that I won't constantly keep questioning my press settings whenever I get any unexpected result.  

Now I will be able to move on and consider other possible problems.  You know what that means of course?  Ken, where are you going?  Come back, I was only joking.  

Once again, very many thanks for your input Ken!
Dave  

  

[davebaileys]

I also have encountered all types of problems with mugs some do to carelessness on my part and some due to the press itself . I'm very careful now how i cut the transfer to go on the cup a little below the top of the cup and a little above on the bottom and not all the way to the handles AND I STRETCH THE PAPER AROUND THE CUP MAKING SURE THAT IT IS NOT LOOSE that can cause a wrinkle and a bad print .
I use a couple of wraps with my press because it burns the cup in the front .   a silicone wrap cut to size and a little thicker softer stone wrap
this is necessary because of my press . I dunk my cups in cold water then i remove the paper after it cools . paper moving on the cup can cause ghosting make sure its is a perfect fit and taped tight on the cup
this is how i defeated the problem i had . plus a lot of testing for the right  time, temp , and pressure and make sure everything on your press is tight screws or whatever holds it together  (Had that problem to) I also found out how close i could get to the handle on each side and get a good print. But its a beautiful thing when it works right .
I am trying to find a way to salvage all the bad prints i have got on cups  any ideas ?   

Graffitiman, 
Thanks for the advice.  I did try dunking the mugs, and my first one craked.  My second one I did with the papers still on, and the paper stuck to the mug.  Still it cleaned off and the mug was fine, maybe try a shorter dunk next time.

What to do with the bad mugs?  Begs the question, can you print over the top of the same mug?  If you can't overprint them, maybe use them for stress relief - I have already tried to see how far I can throw one!
Dave       

[COCHISE]

I live in the desert and miles from noplace. A warm Sunday morning, a willing assistant, a model 1897 Winchester shotgun and a box of #7 load. A pair of Colt 45's and a friendly sand berm.

Stress relief at it's finest.

ken

[davebaileys]

I live in the desert and miles from noplace. A warm Sunday morning, a willing assistant, a model 1897 Winchester shotgun and a box of #7 load. A pair of Colt 45's and a friendly sand berm.

Stress relief at it's finest.

ken

Ken,

Excellent!

You have the edge on location and hardware - I only have a small lawn and a catapult!

Dave

[COCHISE]

Dave,

The world of sublimation is very exciting and filled with marketing ops.

Baseball diamond shaped award plaques, Sublislate, tile murals, Tee shirts, baby items, travel mugs, water bottles............hundreds more.

There is a website sponsored by UniSub (the main manufacturer of FRP products) that you can add a link into your web site giving customers choices as to what FRP (fiberglass re-enforced plastic) products you can offer them. The site is professional done and has no pricing. (I thought I had the link in this computer.... I don't. I modify this post with the link added when I get to the shop).

Because the item is "custom ordered" you can justify a 10 business day delivery time. That gives you time to order and print the item. I usually inventory a couple of the "Hot" items like license plates, mugs, key chains, name badges, etc.

Conde has a very complete line of products but hopefully your local supplier does as well. Conde has a "Partners" section of their site where you can sign in (free) and get their full catalog, without pricing or refrences to Conde, templates, pressing instructions and more. The site also has a U Tube channel with many videos on pressing their products.

ken



ken